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Noxious

Ninja Reporting Criteria

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I'd like to go through the community with this, and see if there are any other criteria which would be important in identifying a ninja looter. Criteria that both identifies the looter, and protects those who are maliciously reported. Please leave your feedback in this topic.

For the first version of the system, only ninja-ing in RDF will be punished. Who you raid is still your responsibility.

 

 

If someone reports a ninja, here are the data we require to process the report (done through screenshots):

  1. Ninja player's class
  2. Ninja player's spec (for classes which have more roles especially, but not exclusively)
  3. Chat proof of item being illegally rolled for
  4. Screenshot of reported player's equipment, to make sure he truly doesn't need the ninja'd item

 

The player/s who could rightfully roll for the item - in the case they do not need it - would need to provide clear chat consent before any roll if they do not need the item, so others can roll on it. The main line of defense a false flag ninja would have in this situation would be asking for consent in advance of rolling on the item.

ALTERNATIVELY

We can just fully disallow needing on items that are not for the person to wear, or items that are worse in quality than the ones they already own. The system already has buttons for Greed and Disenchant, so there should be no excuse here.

 

Another issue: If no one needs the item, for example the tanking sword Red Sword of Courage in Utgarde Pinnacle, would the tank still have the right to roll Need on it, or would we view that as ninja-ing? Discuss!

 

Obvious ways to determine someone ninja'd an item:

1. Armor type differs from what they can equip:

  • Priest, Warlock, Mage: Cloth
  • Rogue, Druid: Leather
  • Hunter, Shaman: Leather until level 40, Mail after level 40
  • Warrior, Paladin, Death Knight: Mail until level 40, Plate after level 40

2. Armor type is irrelevant in the case, but we go by stats depending on spec:

  • Healers: MP5, Spirit
  • Tanks: Defense Rating, Parry Rating, Dodge Rating, Block Rating
  • Damage Dealers (Casters): Intellect, Spell Power
  • Damage Dealers (Melee): Attack Power, Strength, Armor Penetration, Agility

Several classes have a boatload of weapons they can equip. The following is a list of weapons they can equip, removing the ones that are worthless to their class (like Staves for Warriors):

  • Death Knight (DPS) - Axes, Swords, Maces, Polearms, Sigils
  • Death Knight (Tanks) - Axes, Swords, Maces, Polearms, Sigils
  • Druid (Healer, Restoration) - 1-H Maces, Staves, Daggers, Fist Weapons, Off-hands, Idols
  • Druid (DPS / Tank, Feral) - 2-H Maces, Polearms, Staves, Idols
  • Druid (DPS, Balance) - 1-H Mace, Staves, Daggers, Fist Weapons, Off-hands, Idols
  • Hunter - Axes, Swords, Polearms, Staves, Daggers, Fist, Bows, Crossbows, Guns
  • Mage - Swords, Staves, Daggers, Wands, Off-hands
  • Paladin (DPS, Retribution) - 2-H Axes, 2-H Swords, 2-H Maces, Polearms, Librams
  • Paladin (Tank, Protection) - 1-H Axes, 1-H Swords, 1-H Maces, Shields, Librams
  • Paladin (Healer, Holy) - 1-H Swords, 1-H Maces, Shields, Off-hands, Librams
  • Priest - One-Handed Maces, Staves, Daggers, Wands, Off-hands
  • Rogue - One-Handed Axes, One-Handed Swords, One-Handed Maces, Daggers, Fist, Bows, Crossbows, Guns, Thrown
  • Shaman - Axes, Maces, Pole Arms, Staves, Daggers, Fist, Totems
  • Shaman (Enhancement) - Axes, Maces, Polearms [2-Handeds up to level 40], Staves, Daggers, Fist Weapons, Totems
  • Shaman (Healer, Restoration) - 1-H Axes, 1-H Maxes, Polearms, Staves, Daggers, Fist Weapons, Shields, Off-hands, Totems
  • Shaman (DPS, Elemental) - Axes, Maces, Polearms, Staves, Daggers, Fist Weapons, Shields, Off-hands, Totems
  • Warlock - Swords, Staves, Daggers, Wands, Off-hands
  • Warrior (DPS, Arms / Fury)- 2-H Axes, 2-H Swords, 2-H Maces, Polearms, Bows, Crossbows, Guns, Thrown
  • Warrior (DPS, PvP Protection) 1-H Axes, 1-H Swords, 1-H Maces of the DPS variety as well as all of the above.
  • Warrior (Tank): 1-H Axes, 1-H Swords, 1-H Maces, Shields, Bows, Crossbows, Guns (Priority for Tank guns), Thrown

The Paladin Conundrum:

Paladin Healers have a bit of a weird flexibility when it comes to Armor for the Holy spec. Sometimes they end up using Cloth/Leather/Mail healing armor due to the stats, so this one is a bit trickier to handle. Open for suggestions.

One thing that is for sure is that all Plate armor with Intellect on it is a full priority for Paladins, regardless of what spec they are in. They are the only class to use Plate armor with Healing stats.

 

I am certain there are more things to look out for, so please feel free to suggest more.

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Disallowing to roll on certain items will probably create less work for the staff of the server, but also affects player experience the most.

But if you were to go this path, then maybe you can make it so that you cannot need on items on a higher armor class, so a resto druid could need on a cloth item, but not on a mail item for example.

This would still probably be abused to a level, but to a much more managable level for the staff, otherwise you will probably end up getting over-worked more than usual during the first few weeks of this system.

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Good criteria identification. But as its factual, the more you write, the fewer people read. You may consider to create tldr; a section for rules which only include compulsory requirements of ninja reports.
 

 

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Noxious said:

The Paladin Conundrum:

Paladin Healers have a bit of a weird flexibility when it comes to Armor for the Holy spec. Sometimes they end up using Cloth/Leather/Mail healing armor due to the stats, so this one is a bit trickier to handle. Open for suggestions.

Also other classes like eleshamans, boomies, etc got cloth items etc @ BiS Gear,and Preraid Bisgear.

 

20 hours ago, Noxious said:

2. Armor type is irrelevant in the case, but we go by stats depending on spec:

  • Healers: MP5, Spirit 

Spirit isnt just a heal stat, Items with Spirit+Haste or Spirit+Hit Spirit+Crit can be used for example from Damage Dealers and can be much better then items without spirit and a crappy sec stat on it.

 

20 hours ago, Noxious said:

We can just fully disallow needing on items that are not for the person to wear, or items that are worse in quality than the ones they already own. The system already has buttons for Greed and Disenchant, so there should be no excuse here.

how should this be monitored?

Example 1: I  alrdy got 213 Itemlevel Shoulders without hit and im not hitcapped, a ilvl 200 Blue with hit drops. Can i need on it or not?

Example 2: I alrdy got 213 Itemlevel Shoulders without hit and im hitcapped, a ilvl 200 Blue with hit drops. In this case the ilvl 200 Blue isworse then that i alrdy wear. BUT i know in 10 EOH or 5 EOV i will replace a 187 neck with hit, with a higher item without hit, and then i need the hit from the 200 Blue! Can i need on it or not

I could list countless more examples, how something worse later becomes the better.

 

And now for something special 

 

A Feral Tank with  OS FeralDPS,

he needs 2 sets of gear, cause other enchants and gems and sec stats ....

He joins RDF as FeralDPS with full Feral Tank Gear.

What is he allowed to roll on and what not? 

and how u want to monitor that.

 

There are just to much variables, for a smooth rework of the lootsystem.

Also on retail Wotlk this "ninjaing" was a problem for the comm, and Blizz didnt find a smooth solution.

@ Cata, they have done the first step,  to restrict it, with the armor specialication, and later with personal loot.

@ Wotlk it is just impossible to find a good solution

 

 

 

Edited by zorreg

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On spirit: all cloth and leather caster have a mechanic that allows them to convert 30 to 50% of spirit into a different stat, be it spellpower or crit. It doesn't make a item with 30 haste 30 spirit better than a 30 haste 30 crit. But that's the theorycrafter talking.

 

Thus said, is an enhance-resto shaman  barred to need on agility mail because he rolled heal while queueing as both? What about the feral tank collecting boomie gear? Because in a situation like that, both players will think at least twice before queueing for dungeons as the spec they don't need gear for.  Anyone cares to guess what happens when tanks and healers stop queueing?

I do believe being ninjaed in a dungeon is annoying. Hell, I spent months not healing party member from a specific guild in dungeons and raids, just because one of them ninjaed me a weapon. But I feel it's a necessary evil to keep, giving the state of the expansion.

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On 4/20/2019 at 1:06 PM, Paounn said:

On spirit: all cloth and leather caster have a mechanic that allows them to convert 30 to 50% of spirit into a different stat, be it spellpower or crit. It doesn't make a item with 30 haste 30 spirit better than a 30 haste 30 crit. But that's the theorycrafter talking.

 

Thus said, is an enhance-resto shaman  barred to need on agility mail because he rolled heal while queueing as both? What about the feral tank collecting boomie gear? Because in a situation like that, both players will think at least twice before queueing for dungeons as the spec they don't need gear for.  Anyone cares to guess what happens when tanks and healers stop queueing?

I do believe being ninjaed in a dungeon is annoying. Hell, I spent months not healing party member from a specific guild in dungeons and raids, just because one of them ninjaed me a weapon. But I feel it's a necessary evil to keep, giving the state of the expansion.

It's a valid concern. The question I'd have in response to this is:

What are the player's goals with RDF? What do they intend to do with the gear they get from there, main-spec wise, after they're geared enough? Do they intend to heal or DPS in raids or PvP?

The main items that are issues (since they're basically free-for-all) are rings, trinkets, cloaks, necklaces and weapons (for the most part). That's where ninja-ing will be the most obvious. When this thing goes into effect, the part where it's listed in the rules will redirect to a separate topic that will explain every type of ninja-ing in detail: ninja-ing something that has stats which are useless to you, and so on. The challenge here is to have all bases covered before we launch it; there's no room for ambiguity.

That's why I'm taking a look at all the RDF loot, as painful as that might be. I'd like this system to be available in low-level dungeons too, but due to the vast quantity of them, it'll only be for HC RDF at the start, and we'll see if there's anything we missed once the system has been out for a bit.

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I see your point, but.

Who decides what is my main spec? Is it based on the "primary"/"secondary" talent? Is it the one with better gear, so the moment I get one lucky upgrade for either my main spec suddenly changes? Will there be the "most long and complete list of players and their specialization, as recorded by Noxious"? Can I get a signed copy of it, for posterity?


On a serious note, I have something that resembles a solution, but not sure how feasable it is, on the technical and "philosophical" point: have the random queue NOT give you ID for the dungeon you random get ported in, so that with enough (un)luck you can be stuck running through culling of stratholme over and over and over, you'll still get locked for it; moreover, if you feel it's necessary to  prevent abuses, un-link specific and random queues (read: I just queue random, a bunch of friend of mine, one at a time, try to force a specific dungeon, and even then it's not like one can mobilize an army to farm the same dungeon ad nauseam).

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